Greg Heilers on Productizing SEO Services and Surviving the AI Shift

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Greg Heilers, co-founder of Jolly SEO, an agency focused on earned link building and media placements. Greg shares his unconventional entrepreneurial journey, from volunteering around the world to launching multiple agencies and eventually building Jolly SEO into a productized service. The conversation examines lessons learned from early business failures, the value of partnerships, and the challenges of running service businesses through rapid technological change. Karl and Greg also analyze how generative AI is reshaping SEO, content marketing, and outreach—affecting workflows, team structures, and the broader digital marketing ecosystem.

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:00] Introduction to the Retained Trust podcast and guest Greg Heilers of Jolly SEO.

[00:00:49] Greg explains Jolly SEO’s focus on earned link building and shares why he lives in China.

[00:01:38] Greg’s entrepreneurial origin story, including volunteering abroad and starting his first agency.

[00:03:43] Lessons from failed ventures, including attempts at software and early agency struggles.

[00:05:56] Why productizing services helped Jolly SEO manage client expectations and avoid revision-heavy work.

[00:07:45] How Jolly SEO connects clients with journalists and media outlets through earned media placements.

[00:09:50] Overview of link building, ghostwriting debates, and the role of media mentions in SEO.

[00:11:59] The volatility of marketing agencies and how external trends shape their growth cycles.

[00:13:02] Greg shares tactical and emotional strategies for managing the ups and downs of entrepreneurship.

[00:17:13] The benefits and challenges of running a company with a long-term business partner.