Episode 3: The Well-Behaved Scientists

How do you go from being one of the most prominent climate scientists in the country to being threatened with felony domestic terrorism charges? Ali and Sam meet two scientists — Peter Kalmus and Rose Abramoff — who realized that if they wanted to make a real difference, they needed to get out of the lab and onto the streets.

Clarifications and Corrections (April 2, 2025):

Of the five people arrested at the White House protest, Rose is the only one who identifies as a scientist.

Rose was visiting, not living in, North Carolina at the time of our interview.

Rose was a reviewer, not an author, of the IPCC report.

Although police threatened to charge Rose and the other protestors at the Mountain Valley Pipeline with felonies, in the end, they faced misdemeanor charges.

Episode credits:

Sabotage is hosted, reported and executive produced by Alessandra Ram and Samantha Oltman of Good Luck Media

With executive producers Adam McKay and Staci Roberts-Steele of Yellow Dot Studios

Producer: Hannah Chinn

Consulting Senior Producer: Rebecca Sananes

Audio Engineer: Erick Gomez