Trust Is the New SEO: Marketing in the AI Era (with Kevin Indig)

I chat with my buddy Kevin Indig about what he’s learning in his AI research, along with generative engine optimization, and user behavior in tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and Google AI Mode.

Kevin explains why clicks are disappearing, why citations may matter less than brand mentions, and why trust is becoming one of the most important assets a brand can build in the AI era. He also explains “ghost citations,” how AI systems seem to read content, and why customer research is becoming newly essential.

Links to some of Kevin’s recent research:

The Fan-Out Effect: What Happens Between a Query and a Citation

Timestamps:

00:00 Kevin on why trust matters more in an AI world

00:32 Why GEO/AEO may be forcing executives to care about better marketing

01:39 Kevin’s research: fewer clicks, more variance, and trust as the key ingredient

05:11 What “ghost citations” are and why they matter

14:09 The risk of AI slop and how synthetic content erodes trust

19:24 Tools and approaches for tracking AI visibility

22:03 What user behavior research reveals about AI search habits