john a. powell: The Radical Practice of Belonging Without Othering

What if the most radical idea in the world is simply that everyone belongs?

Sanam sits down with john a. powell (he spells his name in lower case): Professor of Law at UC Berkeley, holder of the Robert D. Haas Chancellor's Chair in Equity and Inclusion, Director of the Othering & Belonging Institute, and author of The Power of Bridging.

john grew up in Detroit, one of nine children of a Christian minister. At eleven he left the church and his father stopped speaking to him for five years. That early experience of being othered inside a loving family became a life's work: understanding why every new "we" seems to need a "them", and how we build belonging without othering.

He talks to Sanam about the fear driving voters to the far right, and why fact-checking that fear into silence is itself a form of othering. About the Minnesotans who reframed "immigrants" as "neighbours" and stared down the military. About front porches, subways and public spaces as the quiet infrastructure of belonging, and the 90 seconds of being truly seen that measurably improves a patient's health.

And when Sanam asks what he would do if he were in charge, he gives the best answer yet: he would give the power away. "We is always smarter than I."

"I'm not an optimist, I'm not a pessimist, I'm what I call a possibilist."

At the top of the show, Sanam and Kavita on a grandchild due any day, the World Cup as a masterclass in belonging, Wimbledon as a model for diplomacy, and why the UN might only hand a woman the top job now that the power has moved elsewhere.

Chapters:

00:00 "Can we have a world where we all win?"

00:28 Sanam and Kavita: a grandchild on the way, the World Cup and the UN

18:58 Interview: what othering actually means

19:45 john's story: othered by his own father at eleven