
← Rockets and Radars: Zero to Millions in Space and Defence20. Feb. · 58 Min.
90% of Naval Warfare Will Be Autonomous
<p>Pavel Panasjuk was running cleantech startups when Russian missiles started hitting Ukraine in 2022. He had zero defencetech experience—his only military knowledge came from reading history books as a hobby. Like many Ukrainian entrepreneurs, he and his co-founder Oleksandr started by buying medkits, cars, ammunition, and bulletproof vests to supply friends in the army. But after a few months, they shifted from buying supplies to building something. So they made a crazy bet—instead of fixing today's problems, they'd design autonomous submarines for the war 15 years from now. They asked "what comes AFTER Ukraine's surface drones dominate the Black Sea?" Their answer: AI-powered mini-subs that make tactical decisions independently underwater.</p><p><br></p><p>In this episode, Pavel shares how thinking ahead of the current war became Angler's strategy: why he believes human navies are finished and 90% of naval warfare will be autonomous by 2035, how Ukrainian startups move at 6-month cycles while watching Western contractors plan decade-long programs for systems that'll be obsolete before they launch, why European VCs frustrated him by acting "more like bankers lending money" instead of betting on breakthrough technology like American investors do—and the two things Ukrainian defence founders understand that Western founders are completely blind to: speed and affordability, because when your relatives live near the front line, you don't have time for 10-year development cycles.</p><p><br></p><p>-----------------------------------------------</p><p><br></p><p>Chapters:</p><p>00:00 Introduction</p><p>01:28 What Angler Actually Does</p><p>02:32 From CleanTech to DefenceTech</p><p>03:39 February 2022: The Decision to Build for War</p><p>04:42 Finding Your Technical Co-Founder</p><p>18:25 Customer Discovery: Who Actually Buys This</p><p>20:31 The Pivot: Why We Went Hybrid</p><p>21:49 First Prototypes: Garage to Water Testing</p><p>30:40 How to Actually Raise from European VCs</p><p>36:50 Building Fast vs Building Perfect</p><p>42:35 Where to Incorporate as Ukrainian Founder</p><p>52:27 Getting to Revenue Without 5-Year Timelines</p><p>53:41 How Much Tech to Show Investors</p><p>55:29 What Ukrainian Founders Know About Speed</p><p>55:47 The 6-Month Product Cycle Rule</p><p>56:15 The Unsexy Thing That Kill you Company</p><p><br></p><p>-----------------------------------------------</p><p><br></p><p>You will learn:</p><p