Can We Fix Housing Without Hurting Investors?

Negative gearing is one of the most divisive topics in Australian property—and few people are willing to have a genuine conversation about it.

In this episode, Chris Bates and Veronica Morgan sit down with renowned economist Saul Eslake to explore one of the biggest policy debates in housing, challenging long-held assumptions on all sides of the argument.

Rather than debating who's right or wrong, the conversation unpacks the economic principles behind negative gearing, the capital gains tax discount, and why tax policy shapes where Australians choose to invest. Saul explains why he believes a more neutral tax system would create a fairer economy, while Chris and Veronica question what the proposed reforms could mean for housing supply, investor behaviour, rents, and affordability.

The discussion extends well beyond property tax. They examine Australia's reliance on mum-and-dad investors, the role of institutional investment and social housing, why encouraging new housing supply matters, and whether Australia has become too dependent on property as a wealth-building vehicle. Along the way, they tackle productivity, government policy, and the difficult trade-offs involved in creating a housing system that works for both investors and aspiring homeowners.

Whether you agree with Saul's views or not, this episode offers a rare opportunity to hear a respectful, evidence-based discussion between people who don't always see eye to eye. If you've ever wondered whether negative gearing really solves—or contributes to—Australia's housing challenges, this conversation will give you plenty to think about.

Episode Highlights01:34 – Meet Saul Eslake

05:30 – Why Property Beats Startups on Tax

10:56 – The CGT Discount Explained

14:45 – Challenging the Case for Tax Reform

16:42 – Does Negative Gearing Increase Supply?

18:12 – Do Tax Incentives Really Build More Homes?

23:07 – Who Wins, Who Loses Under Tax Reform?