Episode 83 - Emotion at Work in Inclusion

OverviewIn the podcast interview featuring Katie Allen, a specialist inclusion coach and advocate, the discussion begins with a light-hearted opening about different methods of hanging socks, which serves as an illustrative metaphor for varying perspectives on inclusion. Katie shares her transformative journey into the realm of inclusion, emphasizing that understanding diverse experiences is essential and that binary thinking can be limiting. She advocates for practical approaches that encourage open conversations about sensitive topics like racism and sexism, stressing the importance of personal accountability and vulnerability in leadership. Through sharing her own experiences as a pan-romantic asexual, she highlights the often-overlooked aspects of sexual orientation in inclusion efforts. The conversation concludes with actionable steps for fostering inclusive environments, such as seeking feedback from teams, incorporating inclusive practices like closed captions, and reframing language to enhance engagement and cooperation. Overall, the interview serves as a thought-provoking exploration of strategies to create more inclusive spaces that benefit everyone.

🎙️ Introduction and Light-Hearted Opening (00:09 - 06:30)Katie Allen introduced as specialist inclusion coach, consultant, TEDx speaker, and allyship advocateInnocuous opening question about how they hang socks on washing lines reveals different approachesKatie uses an 'octopus' hanger with individual pegs for socks, hanging them in pairsPhil hangs socks from one side at the 'ankle end' to help them dry quickerDiscussion creates a moment of connection through similarities and differences, paralleling inclusion concepts

💡 Core Concepts of Inclusion (06:31 - 20:02)Katie explains her journey into inclusion work began at age 36 when she truly understood what it means to be whiteListening to Professor Kehinde Andrews explain racialization was eye-opening for KatieKey lesson: Multiple truths can exist at the same time - different experiences can all be validBinary thinking is unhelpful - the world isn't simply good/bad or right/wrongThere's 'no definition of done' in inclusion work - it's an ongoing learning processIntention does not equal impact - good intentions don't change negative impacts

🧠 Practical Inclusion Approaches (20:03 - 35:00)Katie shifted from strategic corporate work to focusing on human conversations about inclusionMany leadership teams struggle to discuss topics like racism, sexism, and homophobiaLeaders fear offending others or facing public criticism if they say something wrongKatie emphasizes personal accountability and normalizing vulnerability in learning journeysRecommends starting with 'I' statements and exploring your own knowledge gapsLeaders should model learning publicly to create psychological safety for others

👂 Understanding Different Experiences (35:01 - 50:54)Phil shares experience working with deaf people and learning about deaf cultureKatie highlights that 'there's no such thing as normal' - only what we've normalizedCreating inclusive environments benefits everyone, not just those with specific needsNon-inclusive environments create emotional and energy costs for excluded peopleExample: Making application processes flexible helps many people, not just specific groupsDiscussion of 'I don't see color' statements and why they can be problematic🌈 Sexual Orientation and Asexuality (50:55 - 01:05:29)Katie explains her identity as asexual - experiencing no sexual attractionDiscovered her asexuality later in life after living most of her life thinking she was straightExplains asexuality spectrum and difference between sexual and romantic attractionIdentifies as pan-romantic asexual - experiences romantic but not sexual attractionShares workplace challenges: asexuality often overlooked in inclusion effortsPeople make hurtful comments like 'you're too attractive to be asexual'Feels seen when people use LGBTQIA+ rather than stopping at LG