Dissecting Persuasion: How a Black Jazz Musician Got Hundreds of KKK Members to Give Up Their Robes

Hundreds of Ku Klux Klan members have handed their robes to Daryl Davis, a Black jazz musician who won them over by listening instead of arguing. His opening question: How can you hate me if you don't even know me?

Howie Chan sits down with Joshua Bandoch, former academic, speechwriter, and author of How to Get What You Want, to unpack why that approach works and why most persuasion fails before it starts. Josh defines persuasion as shared action, not winning, and makes the case that leading with logic is itself illogical, because every human being is wired to feel first and reason second.

You'll learn the four questions that get people to yes without a pitch, why asking how someone feels opens doors that asking what they think keeps shut, how moral foundations theory helps you persuade people who don't share your values, and why the most persuasive leaders of the last century were all for something rather than against someone.

Chapters:

00:00:00 The Daryl Davis KKK Story

00:05:20 Biggest Persuasion Misconception

00:08:04 Persuasion as Shared Action

00:12:24 Why We're Wired to Talk About Ourselves

00:15:46 Questions That Reveal What People Want

00:17:43 Leading with Emotion Versus Logic

00:24:57 How to Read an Audience You Can't Talk To

00:27:07 Appealing to Values Without Pandering