#186: It's Not Defiance, It's PDA (with Casey Ehrlich) Encore

The one who melts down at the smallest request, who seems to dig in the moment you say "do this."...you know this child.  In this episode I sit down with Casey Ehrlich, PhD — social scientist, founder of At Peace Parents, and a leader in the first peer-reviewed PDA research in the United States — to talk about PDA: what it is, why it's a nervous system response rather than defiance, and what actually helps.

PDA isn't defiance. It's a survival-level drive for autonomy — and once you see that, you respond to the child in front of you completely differently.

PDA most often stands for pathological demand avoidance, but many autistic people prefer pervasive (or persistent) drive for autonomy — because autonomy is right at the root of what activates the nervous system. Casey defines it as a survival drive for autonomy and equality that can override other survival instincts like eating, sleeping, toileting, and even safety.

We talk through what PDA actually looks like in young children, why behavior that reads as oppositional or manipulative is so often a nervous-system response, and the practical, compassionate shifts that help a dysregulated child feel safe again — in the classroom and at home.

We'll talk about:

●  what PDA stands for — and why many autistic people prefer "pervasive drive for autonomy"

●  why demand avoidance is a nervous system response, not manipulation or defiance

●  the five characteristics Casey looks for, including equalizing behavior

●  why we flip the order for PDA kids: nervous system and autonomy first

●  the difference between independence and autonomy

●  real strategies: signals of safety, declarative language, and rhythms over routines

In This Episode, You'll Learn