#23: Jim Kalbach on Journey Mapping, Jobs To Be Done, And The Intersection Of Customer Success And UX

<p>In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Jim Kalbach, author of several books including <em>Mapping Experiences and The Jobs To Be Done Playbook</em>, <em>Collaborative Intelligence.</em> Jim is also the Chief Evangelist at Mural and has spent more than two decades shaping how teams understand human experiences, uncover customer needs, and collaborate more meaningfully.</p><p>We talk about the evolution of journey mapping, from an obscure UX technique to a must-have tool that leaders now <em>ask</em> for, and why the real value isn’t in the beautiful deliverable, but in the conversations, alignment, and sensemaking that happen because of it. Jim explains why mapping is a diagnostic tool, a catalyst, and increasingly a survival skill for organisations navigating relentless change and the realities of AI.</p><p>We dive into how AI and journey mapping now inform each other: how AI helps us see patterns in huge datasets, and why understanding human experience has never been more essential as people land “in the middle” of journeys through search, social, and now LLMs.</p><p>We also talk about Jobs To Be Done, how to separate customer needs from your solution, and why language and specificity matter so much when you’re trying to understand the problem behind the problem. Jim shares what most organisations get wrong, why “things don’t have needs — people do,” and why getting clear on intent is still one of the sharpest competitive advantages you can build.</p><p>Beyond that we cover the Intersection of customer success and UX but we also talk about music, collaboration, and how jazz improvisation, sheet music, and walking bass lines all shape the way Jim thinks about teamwork, structure, and the unseen foundations that hold great experiences together.</p><p>Plus:</p><p>☕️ Why coffee and dark chocolate is his go to Fika</p><p>⭐ Why something will always work out, or it always does is his go to advice.</p><p><br /></p><p><strong>What we cover:</strong></p><p>02:20 Introduction to Mapping Experiences</p><p>02:50 Evolution of Journey Mapping</p><p>05:51 AI's Impact on Experience Design</p><p>09:01 The Role of Journey Mapping in Organizations</p><p>12:00 Writing and Publishing Books</p><p>14:56 Jobs to Be Done Framework</p><p>17:44 Understanding Job Performers and Personas</p><p>32:30 The Evolution of UX and Design Responsibilities</p><p>34:52 The Democratization of Design</p><p>37:56 The Dispersal of UX Community and Knowledge</p><p>39:43 Building a Community Around Jobs to Be Done</p><p>43:22 The Intersection of Customer Success and UX</p><p>46:04 The Broader Implications of Jobs to Be Done</p><p>48:45 The Role of Music in Creative Processes</p><p>51:48 Collaboration as a Musical Metaphor</p><p>54:40 Self-Publishing and Sharing Knowledge</p><p>57:11 The Journey to Information Architecture</p><p>01:01:43 Understanding Human-Centered Design</p><p>01:05:25 The Future of AI and Human Needs</p><p>01:10:24 Building Human-Centered Organizations</p><p>01:13:47 Words to Live By and Personal Reflections</p><p><br /></p><p><strong>Where you'll find Jim</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahdoody/" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">⁠</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalbach/" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.jtbdtoolkit.com/" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jobs To Be Done Toolkit</a></li><li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Jobs-Be-Done-Playbook-Organization/dp/1933820683" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jobs To Be Done Playbook</a></li></ul><p><br /></p><p><strong>Where you’ll find Anna &amp; UX Fika:</strong></p><ul><li>⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠<a href="https://www.notion.so/%E2%81%A0https://www.linkedin.com/in/annadahlstrom/%E2%81%A0" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠</a>⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</li><li><a href="https://www.uxfika.co/%E2%81%A0" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika website⁠⁠