Does Australia overrely on the US? Two experts debate ANZUS and AUKUS

As long-held relationships between the US and traditional allies like Canada and the UK unravel, does Australia need to start eyeing the emergency exit?

Does Australia need a plan B? That was the topic at a major United States Studies Centre debate in Sydney held earlier this month between former department of Foreign Affairs secretary Peter Varghese and former Home Affairs secretary Mike Pezullo, hosted by Global Roaming's Geraldine Doogue.

On today's episode of Global Roaming, Geraldine Doogue and Nick Bryant discuss the major arguments of the debate, the assumptions and myths underpinning the relationship between Australia and the US, and whether Australia might be more independent in its foreign policy than some detractors might have thought.

Plus, what countries are the best candidates for Australia to forge closer relationships with? And how has the Australian-US relationship changed from Menzies and JFK to Trump and Albanese?

Guests: Peter Varghese, former Secretary of the department of Foreign Affairs and Trade & Mike Pezullo, former secretary of the Department of Home Affairs.

Get in touch:

If you'd like to attend the 2026 ABC Boyer Lectures in Sydney on October 14th, please email us at global.roaming@abc.net.au

Please note tickets are limited.

Find all the episodes of Global Roaming now via the ABC Listen App or wherever you get your podcasts.