The Hardest Parts of Zero Click Marketing (Rand Fishkin returns!)

Rand Fishkin (my co-author!)  is back on the show for a special episode about our new book, Zero Click Marketing.

We talk about what surprised us while recording the audiobook, and some of the Zero Click Marketing ideas that marketers have pushed back on the most.

We get especially fired up about attribution and post-purchase surveys and taking stronger positions in your content. Plus, learn how an expert like Rand is learning an entirely new kind of marketing as he builds his gaming company, Snack Bar Studios.

In this episode:

00:00 — Why useful advice requires taking a position

03:55 — AI, gatekeeping, and the freedom to build things yourself

08:26 — Why Rand is deliberately making his content weirder and more human

12:00 — What marketers understand — and resist — about Zero-Click Marketing

14:24 — The problem with “How did you hear about us?”

18:50 — A surprise cameo

20:12 — Why free-text attribution surveys don't solve the problem

25:28 — The question to ask customers instead