Higher Levels, New Devils | WesWorld Podcast Ep.8

In this episode of WesWorld, Maggie Ulmer, Dr. Scott Kisker, and Dr. David Watson take up a sobering but necessary conversation about leadership failure, spiritual gifting, and accountability in the Church. Prompted by recent high‑profile scandals, the hosts step beyond breaking news to examine the deeper, recurring dynamics that make such failures possible and, at times, predictable.

The discussion explores the assumption that platform, gifting, or spiritual power equals maturity, challenging the idea that visibility reflects faithfulness. Drawing on examples from across the charismatic, evangelical, and institutional church worlds, the hosts wrestle with questions of prophetic ministry, manipulation, discernment, and the difference between spiritual fruit and spiritual gifts.

Thoughtful, candid, and pastoral, this episode calls leaders and churches alike to recover practices that prioritize character over charisma and faithfulness over fame.

MENTIONSThe Roys Report (Julie Roys) - https://roysreport.com/Jack Deere: My Desire for Power Enabled Paul Cain’s Manipulation (Article) - https://stephendeere.substack.com/p/jack-deere-my-desire-for-power-enabled

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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the official position of Asbury Theological Seminary. The material presented is for general information purposes only.

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