#453 - Treating Identity Like a Product with Eve Maler

<p>Eve Maler, founder of Venn Factory and author of Mastering Digital Identity, joins Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman for her tenth appearance on Identity at the Center. Eve shares what she has learned since the book came out, from writing for non-technical executives (and keeping AI out of the manuscript) to the strange places identity ends up on the org chart. The conversation covers treating identity as a product, why identity can be a business model in disguise, how CISOs can influence CIAM when they are not the boss of it, and the identity debt that AI is now calling due. Eve also explains why intent looks more like purpose of use than finer-grained authorization, how contract language can help frame agent mandates, what trust means to humans versus security teams, and the early work on UMA for Agents (U4A) to govern third-party agents through a resource-centric, protect surface mindset. The episode wraps with travel tips from all three frequent flyers.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Connect with Eve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evemaler/</p><p><br /></p><p>Eve's book "Mastering Digital Identity" - https://masteringdigitalidentity.com/</p><p><br /></p><p>MyTerms: https://myterms.info/</p><p><br /></p><p>UMA for Agents: https://u4a.ai/</p><p><br /></p><p>Kwaai AI Lab - https://www.kwaai.ai/</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Connect with us on LinkedIn:</p><p><br /></p><p>Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/</p><p><br /></p><p>Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/</p><p><br /></p><p>Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>00:00 Introduction and Eve's tenth appearance</p><p>02:40 Life since publishing Mastering Digital Identity</p><p>04:49 Writing for non-technical executives</p><p>06:36 AI and the book writing process</p><p>09:00 Identity as a product: feedback from leaders</p><p>10:29 The strangest places identity lives on the org chart</p><p>11:46 Metrics that work across functions</p><p>13:40 Identity as a business model in disguise</p><p>15:14 Identity's unhoused problem</p><p>16:56 Who is accountable for identity?</p><p>18:33 Security versus usability</p><p>20:43 Is identity the product or part of the product?</p><p>24:04 Normalizing product replacement</p><p>25:53 CISOs, CIAM, and "You're Not the Boss of Them"</p><p>28:03 Defining identity debt</p><p>29:27 How AI exposes identity debt</p><p>31:38 The organizational roots of iden