Permission to Talk About It — Suicide, Shame, and Stay with Jen Butler

What if the most dangerous thing we can do around suicide isn't talking about it — but refusing to?

September is Suicide Awareness Month, and Jamie and Blake are kicking it off with someone they describe as the most accessible voice on this topic they've ever encountered: Jen Butler — real talk writer, comedian, and author of Volume Control — who has spent years refusing to let shame keep this conversation small. Both Blake and Jamie share openly from their own stories in this episode. Blake attempted suicide at 17. Jamie has experienced passive suicidality. Jen has had multiple attempts, multiple psych ward stays, and years of addiction underneath it all. And yet somehow this episode is also funny. Warm. Honest in a way that makes you feel less alone rather than more afraid.

Jen traces her story from a heartbreak at 14 in a Burger King parking lot, to a cancer diagnosis at 22 and the narcotic pain pills that followed, to two psych ward stints, breast implant illness, disordered eating, and finally — sobriety, courtesy of a poet with a man bun. She talks about what it took to write Volume Control — a choose-your-own-emotional-regulation guidebook she built over six years by writing letters to her future self from her darkest places — and previews her next book, Stay, which publishers keep loving and refusing at the same time, because the word suicide makes everyone nervous. The irony is not lost on her.

If you've ever had the thought that you just didn't want to be here anymore — or you love someone who has — this episode will give you language, permission, and a little bit of relief.

If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Why not talking about suicide is the most dangerous thing we can do — not the other way around

How suicidality is really just one expression of a universal human instinct: discomfort is loud, we want comfort

Why a suicide attempt doesn't automatically lead to a shift — and what actually has to change

What "the volume turned up on life" means and why some people feel everything louder than others

How Jen built Volume Control — six years of letters to her future self, organized by emotional state

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